There’s nothing like the Hallmark Channel to give you that ultimate “blast from the past” sensation. And a year or so ago, that is exactly what happened to me. I was surveying the actors in Hallmark’s upcoming film, Harvest Moon, and though I was following it mainly because of the lead guy, Jesse Hutch, I rediscovered an actor I had watched as a young child–Willie Aames. This past summer, Willie took some time to chat with me about his soon-to-be-released film, Every Christmas Has A Story, but I certainly got more than I had bargained for! Willie shared nostalgic moments, insightful musings on the past and present, and even a message of hope from a seasoned, but viable viewpoint.

WA: Well, what can I do for you today?

RH: There were a lot of questions that came in for you from the fans. However, I was also thinking back through the fact that I did grow up watching Eight is Enough. I was pretty young. I can remember the show, and I can remember watching it. I can remember the premise of the show, but I don’t remember the episodes. I guess the show started when I was about three years old. 

You know, you’re very much in the same place I am because I remember the show, but not the episodes.  Eight is Enough was my seventh network series, and by that point, you just kinda keep going. You don’t remember everything. You remember certain ones, but not a lot of ’em.

It seems like you’ve been in acting forever. {laughs}

Forty-seven years. That’s crazy, right? In fact, I was thinking this morning, when Lori {Loughlin} and I did that Hallmark movie {Every Christmas Has A Story}, it was really fascinating for me. In fact, even coming back into acting over the past two years has been amazing.  I’ve been working on ships, and I’ve been away. For much of that time I was away, I was a writer/producer/director. But it was all stuff I controlled. It wasn’t in the general filmmaking population. It’s interesting to me how the industry has changed and how I really feel now like I’m one of the old guard.

I remember when Michael Jackson died; he died on my son’s birthday. And Michael was a friend. I remember my son called and said, “Dad, Michael’s gone.” And I said, “There’s no way. It’s not possible. It’s not on the news.” My son actually worked at a place where he got the news four hours before it broke. After Michael was gone, I kinda had that feeling, “Gosh, how do we lose a guy like that when I’m still here?” My son said, “Let’s face it, Dad. If you make it to fifty-five, you’re one of the old guards. You’re one of the survivors.” And I just turned fifty-six this summer. And that feeling is really there. I remember working with Henry Fonda. I remember working with John Wayne. I remember running into some of the really great people, and they were about my age. {laughs} And now, here I am, as one of them.

I grew up watching all those old movies; that was my childhood. And interestingly enough, although we watched Eight is Enough, for whatever reason, we did not watch Charles in Charge. And I was trying to figure out why. All I know is that during the late ’80’s, early ’90’s, we didn’t watch a lot of network television. And the only reason I can come up with is that we were the ones watching the old stuff most of the time. I have only caught Charles in Charge on reruns. 

That’s kind of interesting ’cause my wife, Winnie {Hung} is very much like that. She grew up in a house where they were very selective about what they watched and what they didn’t watch. I think she watched Charles in Charge quite a bit, but she was more into the Eight is Enough reunions. In the ’80’s, I think a lot of things opened up, and people had more choices with cable. There still was a family hour, but we were beginning to cross over in the ’80’s with a lot more freedom and liberties. Things became a lot more risqué and more revealing. And they became edgier in a lot of ways.

I think what happened with my family is that we were very wary of new shows. We would start to watch a new show, start to like it, and then they would put something in that we didn’t want to watch. This happened too many times, so we veered away from the network shows. And then VCR’s had just come about, and I was constantly going to the library and checking out all the old movies and watching them. 

It sounds like you came from a very conservative family.

Yes, I did. 

That makes a lot of sense ’cause once we finished Charles in Charge, 1983-1990, things began to change in the world of entertainment. Were you homeschooled by any chance?

I was not homeschooled, but I went to a Christian school for most of the time.

Oddly enough, one of the reasons I moved from California to Kansas was my daughter went to a Christian school. There were eighteen in her graduating class. There were a lot of us parents making choices in those days specifically for those reasons because we could see the writing on the wall. Things were changing. I have to say it’s one of the things I really love about the Hallmark Channel is that they have given a lot of us the opportunity to do really nice work and have the right content.

I read a script back during the summer, and the role was one where the opportunity to act was there. It was really nice courtroom stuff. But unfortunately, the rest of the content was all about JonBenét Ramsey. So there was some really, really nice opportunities for some great scenes and to do some nice work, but I just can’t help feeling as though it’s time to let that poor girl go. The millions and millions of dollars that have been made making movies about such a horrible situation, and it just felt wrong. And there’s just so much of that out there right now. There’s great opportunities and truly wonderful writing being done in a lot of different areas, but the content and the subject matter are just wrong. So it’s nice to have stories and opportunities for me to come back and work with the Hallmark Channel. In fact, I’ve got a script now that I wrote during the summer that is meant for them. It gives a lot of us the opportunity to do some work we want to do.

Isabella Giannulli, Willie Aames, Lori Loughlin Credit: Copyright 2016 Crown Media United States LLC/Photographer: Ricardo Hubbs

In fact, this last one that I just did with Colin {Ferguson} and Lori–I’m only in about six or seven minutes of the whole thing, maybe a little bit more–but it was such an incredible opportunity because it’s a pivotal role and it’s very thoughtful. It was the opportunity to do the kind of work that I have wanted to do for about the last twenty-five years and have never gotten that chance.

When I did Eight is Enough, we won two People’s Choice Awards for that show, and never won an Emmy ’cause the Emmys at that time didn’t know where to put us. We were part comedy. We were part drama. We were one of the first examples of what they would eventually call a “dramedy” on television where we approached realistic issues, but we also had a laugh track. Otherwise, I think we would have done fairly well. We did a Christmas show–which has been mimicked several times where I find my dead mother’s present that she’s hidden for me–and that show actually received a fifty-one share, and that’s huge. If a show gets a thirteen share these days, it’s a qualified hit. Which basically means that fifty-one of the households were watching that particular show. And it happened to be my show. I was definitely known on Eight is Enough for drama.

When Charles in Charge came along, they wouldn’t even see me for the role. It took over two years for me to finally get through that door. They cast nationwide and in Canada for two years. They finally ran out of everybody else, and out of desperation, they agreed to see me. And I went into the network, and they said, “Where have you been?”  {laughs} Bascially knocking on the door!  So it was interesting that I couldn’t be seen for a comedy or a comedy character because I was known for drama. And then the comedy did so well, that I couldn’t get in for drama. Comedy is not easy; it’s very difficult. But to do some of those scenes that as an actor you really, really want to do, you need to be able to do both. And be seen for both.

Then I’ve gone on to write and produce. We did all of the Bibleman series. Then we wrote the Misty Files and the Public Life of Sissy Pike that were geared towards young teen and preteen girls, kind of a modern-day Anne of Green Gables. So in those ways, it was very fulfilling as a writer/producer/director, but it’s sort of like doing Disney shows all the time. I love to write and direct and all, but you really don’t get a chance to exercise that other part of your life. And I have not had that opportunity till I did this last show with Hallmark. And it felt really good.

Lori and I had done a pilot together back in the ’80’s for Aaron Spelling. It was supposed to go head to head with The Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew.  And both Lori and I were sure it was going to get picked up. A, I mean Aaron Spelling. and B, it was a really great show–William Windom, Carmen Zapata, myself and Lori. And that never happened. And then I went on and did The Edge of Night for a year in New York after we met on the show, and we got along great. We’ve always been good friends. We had a great time on The Edge of Night. But since then, I haven’t got to work with Lori until this Christmas movie.

Willie Aames (Kyle) and Winnie Hung (Cissy)

When I met my wife up here and moved to Vancouver, I really had no thoughts of going back into television. And then I end up here where all of the shows are being shot. There are easily forty to fifty shows being shot in Vancouver, and so it’s fun to run into a lot of friends, and Lori being one of them.

It was Peter DeLuise and Ron Oliver that first brought me into the Hallmark fold. Ron Oliver was a friend of my wife’s. My wife has been a performer for the last twenty years or so. She worked with Ron Oliver, and we became Facebook friends. And I was still working on the cruise ship–that’s what I had been doing the past eight or nine years.

 Jessy Schram, Willie Aames Credit: Copyright 2015 Crown Media United States, LLC/Photographer: Bettina Strauss

He had written a script, and Peter DeLuise was directing it, Harvest Moon. I knew Peter’s dad pretty well. I had never met Peter, but I knew his dad, Dom. And they were all good friends with the Van Pattens. So they’re the ones who roped me back into this, and it was quite sneaky really. They made it so much fun. {laughs} I said, “I’m really kinda done with that. I have another career going that’s really wonderful.” But I did the show when I was up here and off the ship. So I can credit those two scoundrels for dragging me back into this thing.

I really hadn’t followed your career since Eight is Enough. I wasn’t good about following careers closely until the last couple of years. And the only reason I noticed you and started finding out about you was that Jesse Hutch had tweeted out who he was working with in an upcoming film.  Jesse and I have a really good twitter relationship. He has followed my reviews ’cause I was a big supporter of Cedar Cove. I’m really good about following actors who work with Hallmark, and then I realized who you were and thought, “Oh, I used I watch him way back when.” 

Jesse Hutch–he was great. He was really a lot of fun. And my wife has known him for a long time as well. I’ll tell you, that’s the really weird thing about being up here is that everyone knows my wife. And so I’m no longer Willie Aaames. I’m like Winnie’s husband. And that was how Jesse and I met. “Oh yeah, you’re Winnie’s husband.” And I’m like, “I do come with my own career.” Jesse was great. He was really funny and a really, really nice guy.

Tony Alcantar, Jessy Schram, Willie Aames, Patricia Isaac Credit: Copyright 2015 Crown Media United States, LLC/Photographer: Bettina Strauss

And I have to tell you it was surreal walking onto that set because when I got to the set, Peter DeLuise and all the people who were behind the making of the film were very kind and welcoming. They said it was awesome to have me there. So you have the people who have been around quite awhile. And then if you walk around the corner and head to the catering truck, these were all new kids who don’t have a clue about your background and what you’ve done. It was really the epitome of that feeling I was talking about earlier…I have had the opportunity to work with some of the great names in Hollywood–Carol Burnett, Lucille Ball, Henry Fonda, John Wayne–this was my normal life. And suddenly you find yourself back on a set and it’s familiar, and some people are welcoming, and when you go around the corner, you hear, “Are you an extra? If you’re an extra, you can’t eat here.”  {laughs} And I was just laughing and going, “Wow!” So I got this sense that I have been at this long enough to have come, to have gone, and to come back again. And it’s a different sort of reality. It’s a different sort of norm that’s out there now.

You see it all the time. I remember watching American Idol one time, and Barry Manilow was on. And he was working in the studio with some of the kids. And you could hear the director say, “Barry’s sweating. He needs powder. Could somebody get that for him?” A make-up artist came onto the set and went to the bass player..to the wrong guy. And the whole place was like, “No, no, no! That’s not Barry!” Barry Manilow was standing there and he kinda raised his hand and went, “I’m Barry.” And the girl went, “Well, how am I supposed to know?” It was shocking, but at the same time, very telling. Barry Manilow, one of the great songwriters, and he was so kind and so classy and so humble about it. You could tell the whole place was holding their breath, but he was a gentleman about it.

And the same thing with Paul McCartney. I remember seeing at the same time that Paul McCartney had to go out and promote an album. They asked him, “How do you feel about the fact that you’re out there promoting a record and doing talk shows?” And he said, “Well, there’s a whole generation of people who don’t even know who the Beatles were. Times change.” So I’m reminiscing like an old man now…

No, that’s okay. You’re perfectly fine. I fully understand what you’re talking about. I taught music for many years, and that’s when I realized there was such a disconnect between this generation and my generation. The kids didn’t know any of the singers or musicians from even back in the ’70’s and the 80’s. They hadn’t even heard of these people. 

It’s interesting for as much as I think technology has brought us together, it has driven us apart. We have thousands of outlets on the internet now for music.  I toured for a long time as a musician. I opened up for Rod Stewart, Hall & Oates, Nix, Journey–I toured a lot with my band. And there used to be at least an opportunity for some wonderful crossover. You could turn on the radio and hear almost any style of music in some sort of rotation. I remember FM came along and it was just “Wow!” It’s quieter, it’s greater, it’s better quality. And now there’s so many subcultures that there’s very little that unifies us when it comes to music. There are very few crossover artists that appeal to almost anyone. I think U2 was one of the last ones in the rock industry. You can kinda look at Garth Brooks, but the days of the Judds being massive hits are pretty rare. It would be hard for me to point to anybody that really crosses a lot of age groups now where everybody is kind of listening to the same thing.

When I was the executive vice-president of Pamplin Entertainment, at that time, we had twenty-five Christian bookstores and four radio stations. We had the production company that was doing all of the Bibleman plus all of the other family entertainment. And then three record labels. In fact, Katy Perry had her first record deal through us with Red Hill Records. She was Katy Hudson. I remember signing Katy and getting her on the label. We were all so excited about it. Then I started putting together all the directing for all of the music videos. It’s interesting because she is probably one of the few that crosses over the age gaps.

Then there’s another girl that you might keep your eye on. Her name is Nicki Leonti. She wasrecently a contestant on America’s Got Talent and did really well. We signed her to her first record deal, and she’s now got a family group with her daughter and husband. The Edgar Family Band is the one to be looking for. Nikki’s got a great story. I saw her about a year and a half ago in Los Angeles. Nikki had a fantastic voice. I met with her and her family, and we took her on the road, promising to take good care of her. She got involved with one of the band members, and she got pregnant. She had a lot of problems in Nashville. Nashville can ruin you. I’m not a fan of Nashville at all. It can be a ruthless town. She finally made it back out to LA. She then was finally chosen to be one of the studio voices for Fame. So when the characters were singing, she was one of the ones doing the singing. So she contacted me and said, “Hey, do you want to get together?” And I said, “Yeah, I’ll take you to dinner, and we’ll catch up.” Then she invited me to go–and I hadn’t heard her sing in years–she invited me to go with all of the Fame people to a karaoke bar. So I went, and they wanted me to sing. I said, “Well, it’s been awhile, but I’ll sing with you.” I got up there, and it was like these are all professional studio singers, and I was like, “Wow, this is amazing!” It was a lot of fun to see her pop up on America’s Got Talent. I think she will now do well for herself and her family.

I sure was a fan and supporter of hers on the show. That is really something; what an interesting connection. 

Well, you know, I bounced around into lots of different areas. Social media is interesting ’cause as much as it has brought us together, it’s also driven us apart. The good part is I have connected with a lot of people. I’ve not reconnected with Katy. I don’t envision that happening any time soon. She’s on a different level now to get a hold of.  Did you ever know KC and the Sunshine Band?

I’ve only heard the name.

He did the song “That’s the Way I Like It.”

Oh, okay, yes, I know who you’re talking about now.

KC and I used to do some shows together, and he recently hit me up on social media. Kinda fun.

I know some of the fans were asking if you still keep in contact with the actors from Eight is Enough and Charles in Charge. 

Well, sure. I chat with Josie {Davis} and Nicole {Eggert} and Alex{ander Polinsky} and Scott {Baio} quite regularly. Almost daily with Jennifer Runyon. They’re all good friends. When they’re up here shooting or on Facebook, we chat quite a bit. And Alexander Polinsky is fairly prolific when it comes to twitter so we end up chatting there some. Jennifer is so busy now because she was in the original Ghostbusters, but she and her husband and Winnie and I are really good friends.Scott’s been busy, and the four of us–he and his wife and Winnie and I–will go out and have breakfast or dinner sometimes. We stay in pretty close contact.

With Eight is Enough, Betty Buckley and I stay in contact quite a bit through social media. If she’s in town or I’m in town, we’ll get together. Grant and Debbie Goodeve have always been good friends. Susan Richardson just reached out about six or eight months ago. I heard she was not doing very well, and somebody on social media got a hold of me, and I reached out to her. She seems to be doing better. Then Connie {Needham} who played Elizabeth, she just reached out awhile back. We do stay in touch.  I think more and more the older we get.

Sometimes there are things you hang onto, but you have to let go of them. And at a certain point, you have to let them be what they were and not hang onto those. It’s a good thing. A transitional sort of thing. I’m very introspective when it comes to different segments of my life and what I’m doing, where I’m headed and the things to hang onto and the things not to hang onto. I think the older we get, the more we realize what is important and what’s not. We either reach out and reestablish contact or we put certain chapters of our life to bed. And it seems that more and more of that is happening. And in many ways, that’s a good thing. I get nostalgic pretty easily.

I understand. I think that happens as we get older. 

Yeah, and then you start going, “Oh my gosh! I’m one of them!” You know, it’s time to stop wearing Doc Martens and quit fantasizing about having your ears pierced again. {laughs} It’s time to act your age, I suppose.

People were also asking if you’re ever going to do anything like the Bibleman again.

You know, I don’t think so. That was a project that I literally took from driving around in a van doing a hundred and twenty days a year, four hundred thousand kids a year. I really think it was some of the moments I was most proud of that came out of that whole part of my life. And the way it was timed to pass the baton, it took on a whole different complexion after I let go of it. And I don’t want it to sound disparaging to everything that came after it, but I just don’t think it would ever be the same. For a long time, I had this fantasy of what the next generation and the next step would be in terms of what my involvement in that arena would be.  And it’s just never really materialized. When we were doing it, there were points when you could appropriately approach those sorts of projects. The money and interest were there and the connections were there. And it lasted for this brief period of time of about twelve years. And all of that has changed now. The bookstores, the support, the opportunities for making those has really gone away. And now it would be really difficult I think to go back and do some of those things and make them relevant again.

I know that the company that took over that particular project–the Bibleman Project–Tommy Nelson is now going away from live action altogether. They’re going to do it in an animated thing. It’s one of those things that I’ve looked at quite frankly, Ruth, and said that is a portion of your life you need to move on from and realize that it was great for what it was, but to go back would probably be more detrimental than it would be positive. And whenever you revisit projects like that… and I give a lot of past projects much thought. I’ve been asked whether I would do a Charles in Charge reunion. That’s one of those things that this past summer I’ve come to realize will never happen. And I had a lot of hope for that.

I’ve had a lot of projects–Eight is Enough is one of them. Moving on from the Bibleman series was one of them. Charles in Charge was one of them. They all seem so viable, and I don’t know whether it’s that they seemed truly viable or whether I had such fond memories that I wanted to go back. I’ve been so fortunate, Ruth. I’ve either starred or co-starred in twenty-two network series as well as feature films. I’ve been a writer, producer, director. I was a big game hunter. I won the world’s richest Marlin tournament. I’ve been a rock star. I’ve done all of those things.

Sometimes you look back, and because our country is changing so dramatically–the last time it was this dramatic was probably 1967, 1968–and I’m looking at it, and the nostalgic part of me really does want to go back to those great days. And I think that’s part of the appeal of the Hallmark Channel is that you see a lot of people you just love. When I went to the Hallmark party and I ran into Gregory Harrison, Lori Loughlin, and all of these people that we grew up in the industry together. It was like going to your favorite high school reunion where everybody was somebody that you wanted to hug and say hello. There was such a camaraderie and such an acceptance. And that channel really respects the accomplishments of the people who work for them. Michelle Vicary, Bill Abbott, Elizabeth Yost–all of these people, when you meet with them, they have a true appreciation and respect for your career and what you bring to the table, whether it’s in three scenes or whether it’s throughout the whole movie. And that’s what makes it such a pleasure to work for Hallmark. And although you’re doing new projects, there is that sense of satisfying the need for nostalgia.

If you go to another set now, it is all about “time is money.” You get maybe one or two takes. You don’t laugh a lot. There’s a lot of sets out there that are just cranking ’em out. That opportunity for camaraderie, sense of family, and that sense of working together isn’t often there any more.  So Hallmark fulfills that need for nostalgia and that sense of family in the industry that used to be everywhere in the industry. But at the same time, I’ve seen at least four different scripts about how to bring the Eight is Enough show back together. All of ’em viable, but you couldn’t get everybody together in one place. Or the rights have been sold off to another studio.  Or the network wasn’t looking for that sort of thing at the moment. I’ve gone down a lot of those paths, but I have realized that there comes a point when you just have to let those memories be where they lived and move onto something new and figure out what the next stage is.

I was just working on a project that I hope will take place, but I had to come up with some different looks for myself. And there was this weird comfort in knowing you’re not going to be the lead anymore, but you will be a great character actor. And there is a freedom in accepting where you are and looking at parts and realizing they are really cool parts. I’m not going to be the “Jesse Hutch”–it’s his time. You’ve moved past that. And in this Christmas film, it gave me the opportunity to play this kind of role, and I haven’t had that opportunity in like thirty years. They weren’t writing those kinds of parts for younger actors. Now I’ve got an opportunity to do it. And this is a long-winded way of saying I probably won’t go back to any of the old projects.

There are a lot of opportunities now to talk about things that you couldn’t really talk about as candidly before as you can now. It’s something I appreciate even with Hallmark because they will deal with real issues in the right way. Maybe those times back there were good times, but there are other opportunities now as well.

And it’s true that the memories are wonderful and the accomplishments will never go away. The more we hold onto the past, the fewer steps we take towards the future. I fully embrace the past as a wonderful friend, but it’s truly time to move towards the future and embrace that. Maybe all of this will work its way into a script at a some point ’cause I like to write about what I know about. It’s just about embracing who you are. I think we hang onto the past because there’s so much turmoil, but someone needs to let people my age realize it’s okay to remember the past, but we need to embrace the future and don’t fear that change. I’ve watched so many people pass away–people I love and respect–so many of my heroes… some that I knew and some that I didn’t know have passed away.

You have to really enjoy and look for the positive in our future. I look at our country and it’s frightening where we are. But at the same time, being up in Canada because it’s so much like the States, but it’s a different country. When I look at my Canadian friends and see the comments they are making about the United States, it’s funny. I will tell them, “My country, from the moment it became a new land to now is only about 360 years. We’re not England. We haven’t been around for the last couple thousand years. And it will change. And we’re not the only country in the world that has dealt with change, and we will come out of it.”

How can they be so short-sighted over just a few years? We have 360 million people. Canada has the thirty-seventh economy in the world. California has a bigger economy than the entire country of Canada. There are more people in the state of California than in the entire country of Canada. There are thirty-seven million people in Canada. When you start looking at that, why are people so quick to judge? There’s going to be change in a big country of free people. We are the experiment. We are grasping at whatever our future is going to be, and we are changing. But why are you so quick to toss us out the window? Change comes slowly, especially when you have that many people.

And with that bit of sagacity, the conversation closed out between us. But what I didn’t foresee is that this interview would begin a friendship between Willie, Winnie, and me. I was merely interviewing the man, but it wasn’t long before he was there for me when I was struggling. And he knew that he could come to me with ideas and unparalleled support. Willie Aames is certainly not the typical actor. He’s gone through the hard times, and his experience is amazingly vast. But through all of that time, he has learned the secret of being positive, supportive, kind, and above all, humble. He could spend his time whining just like we all do on occasion. And you know, he’s human and he does complain once in a while. Who doesn’t? But he chooses to focus on what is right with the world and the industry, and in this case, it is Hallmark without a doubt. And I am immensely grateful that he and Winnie are a part of my life now, and they can rest assured that my loyalty to them as industry professionals and solid people is unswerving. So, be sure that you tune your station to the Hallmark Channel this Saturday night (November 12) to watch his new Christmas film Every Christmas Has A Story. And while you are planning on savoring every last moment of what is soon to become a new holiday classic, be sure that you follow Willie on the links below so that you can observe and participate in this next phase of his career. He’s not done yet, people, so don’t count him out!

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